Episode 2: You Cannot Sell Consulting and Implementation at the Same Time
Interview: How Kevin Turned an Agency Into a Higher-Profit Advisory Business (and What Agency Founders Can Steal)
Behind the Agency Podcast with Kevin Whelan(Advisor + Creator of Mindshare, a membership for marketing consultants)
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Prefer the highlights? Key takeaways and summary below.
TL;DR – Key Takeaways
Kevin started like a lot of us: freelance → solo agency → crossroads where scaling meant hiring a real team.
Instead of building a bigger agency, he built a “deconstructed agency”: he sells strategy + leadership and brings in specialists to execute without marking up delivery.
Two books helped spark the shift: Alan Weiss (Value-Based Fees) and Mike Michalowicz (Profit First).
His big contrarian point: selling consulting + implementation at the same time creates a weird trust dynamic (even if you’re honest).
The safer transition isn’t “burn the ships.” It’s phase it in, keep the core business running, and test the new model with 1–2 clients.
If you want to pivot into something more focused (new niche, productized offer), don’t mash it into your main site—spin it off as a separate brand/offer owned by the agency.
Services marketing is mostly de-risking: proof, case studies, teaching, and credibility signals beat clever messaging.
The 4-stage ladder Kevin sees: Execution → Management → Advising → Education (more leverage as you climb).
Does This Sound Familiar?
You sell the thinking and you also sell the doing. So when you recommend the $30,000 rebuild, part of the client's brain is asking whether a $15,000 refresh would have done the job, and whether your team's open capacity next month had anything to do with it.
You'd never do that. But it doesn't matter. The doubt is built into the setup, and it rides along in every proposal you send.
The only reason it isn't costing you deals is that you're good enough to talk past it.
Kevin Whelan hit that wall running a solo B2B agency, and he took the unusual way out. He'd been building websites since the early 2000s and turned it into a real business around 2014. So he had a decade to watch the pattern before he changed it.
Instead of hiring a delivery team, he rebuilt it as what he calls a deconstructed agency. He sells strategy and oversight. Then he hands clients straight to vetted specialists at cost, with no markup and no grip on the relationship.
What's left is a higher-profit advisory business with no delivery payroll under it.
And his advice on how to get there is the useful part, because it isn't burn the ships. Phase it in, keep the existing business running, and test the new model on one or two clients first.
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Meet the Guest
Kevin has been building websites since the early 2000s—starting with hand-coded sites for friends and family, then turning it into a real business around 2014. He ran a solo B2B services agency for years, until he hit the classic fork in the road: hire a full team and scale the agency… or redesign the business around what he does best.
Today, he runs more like an advisor than an agency owner. He sells strategy, oversight, and decision support, then connects clients directly with vetted specialists. He also teaches other consultants through Mindshare, his membership for people building solo practices.
Episode Summary
1. From freelancer → solo agency → “I don’t want to hire a full team”
Kevin’s origin story is super familiar. He built a book of business nights and weekends while working a corporate job, then went full-time.
After a few years, he realized scaling meant becoming a different kind of business: project managers, ops, bigger delivery team, more complexity.
Instead, he chose a different path: keep the value, drop the overhead.
2. The main tension: scaling an agency isn’t just “more clients”
The big trap is thinking you’re “just busy.” But the real issue is your model starts demanding things you may not want:
managing more people
managing more projects
more scope friction
more “dog and pony show” reporting
Kevin didn’t hate agencies. He just didn’t want the version of himself that scaling required.
3. The “deconstructed agency” approach (and why it changed everything)
This is the core idea:
Instead of selling execution + marking up delivery, Kevin sells:
strategy
advisory
analytics + accountability
vendor selection + vetting
coordination and planning
Then he introduces the client directly to the execution partners at cost (no markups, no referral fees, no affiliate commissions).
He described it like moving from sitting across the table from the client to sitting on the same side of the table.
That shift changes the whole vibe from “prove what you did” to “make smarter decisions together.”
4. The trust problem: consulting + implementation in the same deal
Kevin’s strongest (and honestly pretty spicy) claim:
If you advise someone what to buy… and you also sell the thing you’re recommending… the client has to do extra mental work to trust it.
He used analogies that hit:
the dentist saying “you need this procedure”
the vet offering a pile of vaccines
Even if the provider is ethical, the buyer still wonders: “Do I really need this, or do you just sell this?”
That’s why Kevin thinks it’s hard to be both:
the “fiduciary” guide (aligned incentives)
and the seller of the execution work
5. A practical path for agency founders: don’t blow up your site, spin it off
Kevin’s advice for agencies wanting to narrow or productize without risking the whole business:
Don’t mash the new offer into your existing positioning if it creates confusion.
Create a separate “thing” (a productized service, a niche brand, a focused offer) that’s owned by your agency.
Borrow credibility from the main agency, but market the new offer hard as its own lane.
This is his “overlap” approach: keep the core running, test the new model, then shift weight over time.
6. The 80/20 transition ladder: Execution → Management → Advising → Education
If you want the simplest next step away from pure delivery, Kevin says:
Drop execution first, and sell management + leadership (fractional CMO style):
the client owns the accounts
the client owns the files
the client pays vendors directly
you run the system, make decisions, and keep it accountable
Then you can later step down into lighter advisory… or they hire in-house.
7. Services marketing vs SaaS marketing: map vs guide
Kevin’s simplest explanation was the best:
SaaS is selling a map (a tool)
services are selling a guide (expertise)
With a guide, you’re paying for:
avoiding dumb mistakes
picking the right path
moving faster with fewer injuries
His point: services buyers are making a capital allocation decision. They’re asking:
how do I de-risk this spend?
how fast will I get a return?
are you likely to get me up the mountain?
8. Teaching as leverage (and as marketing)
Kevin’s take: once you’ve got “sawdust” (templates, methods, examples), you can package it into education:
newsletters
workshops
courses
memberships
books
And teaching also acts as credibility. It’s a way to give people proof before they pay you.
Notable Quotes
“It’s really hard to sell consulting and implementation at the same time.”
“It’s a capital allocation game at the end of the day.”
“We’re in the de-risking business as much as we’re in the upside business.”
“All roads are hard. It’s just which kind of hard do you want?”
Related Episodes
Ep. 12: Strategy Is the Only Thing That Cannot Be Commoditized
Ep. 56: Stop Selling Services and Start Solving Million-Dollar Problems
Learn More / Get in Touch
Visit → kevin.me
Newsletter → (linked from his site)
Community/Membership → Mindshare (linked from his site)
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