Partnerships Aren’t Luck: They’re a System

Interview: How Agencies Can Build a Predictable Referral Engine (Without Being Salesy)

Behind the Agency Podcast with Mike Willner, Founder at Switchboard

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Prefer the highlights? Key takeaways and summary below.

TL;DR – Key Takeaways

• Most agencies already believe in referrals — they just don’t treat them like a system.

• “Partnerships” feel formal, but referrals are partnerships whether you call them that or not.

• The fastest way to get referrals is to start making them, not asking for them.

• Affiliate-style referral programs fall flat for high-trust, high-ticket services.

• A small number of deep partners beats a giant list of inactive ones.

• Financial incentives don’t create trust — they make good partnerships sustainable.

• The best partners are people you’d happily refer business to first.

• Positioning yourself as a connector makes you the first call when clients have a problem.

Meet the Guest

Mike Willner is the founder of Switchboard, a software product that helps professional service firms manage referral partnerships intentionally. He works with agencies, consultants, and service providers who want to grow through relationships — without relying on luck, karma, or awkward asks.

Episode Summary

1. From “Referral Karma” to Strategy

Most agency owners say referrals matter. But very few have a real strategy for them.

Mike pointed out that referrals are often treated like random acts of goodwill — something you hope shows up if you’re nice enough or patient enough. The problem? Hope isn’t a growth plan.

When you treat partnerships as a system instead of a vibe, things change fast.

2. The Real Pain: Transactional Thinking

The biggest thing holding partnerships back isn’t lack of interest — it’s mindset.

“Both sides are waiting for the other person to refer first… and then nothing happens.”

Agencies often approach partnerships like trades:

“You send me work, then I’ll send you work.”

That standoff kills momentum every time.

3. The Counterintuitive Fix: Go First

The partnerships that actually work all have one thing in common:

someone made the first referral.

Not a pitch.

Not an agreement.

Not a shared Google Doc.

An actual intro.

That single move flips the relationship from hypothetical to real.

4. The 4-Direction Partner Framework

Mike shared a simple mental model for finding good partners:

• Upstream – services clients need before you

• Downstream – services they need after you

• Upscale – same service, bigger scope or higher price

• Downscale – same service, smaller or more accessible

Once you see partnerships this way, you realize most of the right people are already in your network — Slack groups, LinkedIn, or even your existing clients.

5. The Big Mistake: Treating Referrals Like Affiliates

Scaled affiliate-style programs don’t work well for agencies.

Why?

Because agency referrals are high-trust decisions, not link clicks.

“Three active partners beat a hundred inactive ones every time.”

Depth beats breadth.

6. The Connector Mindset (and Why It Wins)

One of the most practical takeaways was how to reframe discovery calls.

Instead of leading with:

“Let me tell you about my services…”

Try:

“Even if I’m not the right fit, I may know someone who is.”

That small shift:

• Lowers sales pressure

• Builds trust fast

• Positions you as a strategic guide, not a vendor

Clients remember that.

7. Why Referral Fees Actually Matter

Referral incentives aren’t about getting rich.

They’re about sustainability.

Without them, people eventually feel awkward, resentful, or burned out from sending value one way. Aligned incentives keep good behavior going — without turning things into favors.

Notable Quotes

“The people who get the most referrals are the ones who start by making them.”

“Affiliate models don’t work for high-trust services.”

“Three active partnerships beat a hundred dormant ones.”

“Be the first call — even when the answer isn’t you.”

Learn More / Get in Touch

Website → https://tryswitchboard.io

LinkedIn → Search “Mike Willner”

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